He cuts the image of a young man in a hurry. But Prof Abraham-yes!-Kithure Kindiki is confident that his steps are measured and calculated.
Like his favourite character Okonkwo, who washed his hands and dined with kings, Prof Kindiki has outgrown his age at every turn.
He was Associate Dean, University of Nairobi School of Law at only 32, and last year he beat more experienced and more moneyed politicians such as Kiraitu Murungi, the latter-day King of Ameru, to the seat of Senate Majority Leader.
But there are those who say the eloquent Tharaka-Nithi senator has shed off hisacademic gown and abandoned the reformist path.
Hogwash, he says. A student of Robert Greene, he asserts that leadership is not recklessness and that loyalty is a virtue in politics. The lawyer, who was once given a Sh400,000-a-month job by the Narcadministration but resigned a few months later saying he was idle, also told us why he wakes up at 2am to read.
Q: Your PhD thesis advocates for the intervention of the international community in cases of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity, yet today you are an acidic anti-ICC crusader. How do you reconcile the two?
A: The thesis was based on the Rwandan genocide in which a million people died in a 100 days even as the world watched and did nothing. I argued for the international society to support reconstructive residual mechanism.
I also made a case for a graduated intervention to protect civilians in Darfur. The Right To Protect remains even more profound today, but not necessarily in a judicial manner. It can be militarily or politically. But we don’t need a Big Brother; we need a big friend because as, in the case of Cain and Abel, a brother is not always well-meaning.
Q: So what is the problem with the ICC intervention in the Uhuru-Ruto cases?
A: You cannot explain how Kenya which, sadly, had a bad experience for three weeks, has become the obsession of the world for six years now. We have been saying all this time the problem did not constitute crimes against humanity.
Now they are scavenging for evidence while Syria, which has been embroiled in systematic and orchestrated civil war for the last 23 months, has not been touched. The court has also used the most absurd methodology, opening cases then investigating instead of the other way round. They have also emphasised oral evidence, which can be easily abused by taking connivance as corroboration. But the cases will collapse spectacularly, which could bring the court down because it will trigger a huge legitimacy crisis.
Q: You rose through the academic ranks at a break-neck speed, completing your doctorate in two-and-a-half years. What is the secret?
A: From a very young age, I learnt from my parents and the society around me that the road of life is a long one. I also learnt the value of believing in oneself. The human person is created by God with incredible capacity. I learnt I could rise from anything to anything.
Q: So why did you abandon the academy for politics?
A: It was not about the pay. I am better off earning Sh150,000 without any public demands than earn Sh800,000, all which I can easily give out in fund-raisings. Politics is an economically hazardous profession, but I am still a much happier man now.
I left because I had given 12 years of my prime to a cause I believed in. I also realised I was serving a very small cadre of people, who could access higher education and do an elite course called law. I am very happy I made a decision to serve the 99 per cent out there who actually needed my help.
Q: The renowned essayist Francis Bacon wrote that reading maketh a man. What kind of literature made you what you are today?
A: I have been influenced a lot by the Bible. My father was a reverend of theMethodist Church for 50 years and in my younger days, I was able to read the Biblefrom cover to cover. Those who hear me speak often will tell you that my analogies and nuggets of wisdom are drawn from the Holy Book.
Q: Do you still find time to read?
A: Yes, I read. I read while travelling, in the traffic jams and between midnight and 2am. This is when my mind absorbs the most.
You know reading is the food of the mind. Just like you nourish the body by bathing and grooming, you must also read if you are to keep your mind alert and healthy. I am a constructionist reader as opposed to a displacement reader.
Most Kenyans who read use the displacement method and just like in the Archimedes Principle, what is earlier read is displaced by the new knowledge. When I was teaching, I often teased my Fourth Year law students that we were in the process of changing the curriculum to include an oral test where to graduate they had to successfully answer random questions from First Year, and they were always terrified.
Q: What body of knowledge most fascinates you?
A: I love biographies and motivational books. I am also a great fan of African literature. One that has made a life-long impact on me is Things Fall Apart.
The tragedy of how one man single-handedly tried to defend African culture. Okonkwo had achieved so much, but had no strategy of engaging success. And this is where Robert Greene’s 48 Laws of Power comes in. Greene is another of my favourites.
If you are strategic, you can even accept to lose a battle, but win the war. I am also a great admirer of Elechi Amadi of The Concubine and The Great Ponds fame. In the motivational genre, John Mason’s An Enemy Called Average is my all-time favourite. I have lately moved into books of management. And of course I buy every new title in my field of international law.
Q: Any Kenyan book?
A: Oh yes, I have read Ngugi wa Thiong’o, especially A Grain of Wheat, The River Between and Petals of Blood; Henry Ole Kulet and Meja Mwangi as well as recent biographies like Raila Odinga’s Flames of Freedom.
Q: What are you reading now?
A: I am reading From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000 by Lee Kuan Yew. It has great lessons on how a tiny country which economic analysts were not even giving a chance, leaped from a backwater former British post to an economic force in Asia and the world in a generation.
Singapore has a striking resemblance to our small county, Tharaka-Nithi, and I know it is possible for us and Kenya as a whole to take off and be a world force in our lifetime.
Q: Meru leaders from outside Imenti like Mithika Linturi and Kareke Mbiuki have vowed that they are re-evaluating their support for Uhuru. Is that the feeling of the voter in Irunduni?
A: As the senior-most politician from the Mt Kenya region, I can tell you that there has been a historical problem centred around skewed development projects and discriminatory public appointments.
Make no mistake about it. It is true we are a bit uncomfortable about what has so far been announced. As a man who is looked up to by the whole of that region, I can tell you the appointments put us in a big mess. The cries from the Igembe and Tigania parts of Meru County and those from Tharaka Nithi County are not far-fetched.
But the solution is not to vilify a community or to call for the sacking of those already appointed. I have been assured by the President there are still 170 otherpositions that are coming up and I urge my people to be patient.
But even of more importance is to address development discrepancies. We have a stake in Jubilee. You can’t build a house then you leave it for strangers. But we shall continue vehemently fighting for equalisation, which will also cushion the President when we go back to ask for votes.
Q: The British government has stuck to its guns saying it would not lift the ban on miraa. What next for Meru leaders seeing as the twig is the backbone of the region’s economy?
A: Recent findings have vindicated us that miraa is a stimulant and not a drug. Even the countries that have banned it have not done so on the basis that it is a drug, but that it litters towns and makes people idle. We have gone to court in London to challenge the notice to ban it.
Q: You are a prominent leader of a government that is now being accused of rolling back the democratic gains made in the last 20 years.
A: All leadership is tested and we will be the stronger for it. The ICC matter is now almost behind us and this will help us concentrate on what we have started: transforming the lives of Kenyans by building institutions and delivering services.
Q: You rose to fame as a foremost international law scholar. Who do you see now when you look in the mirror?
A: I see my old self. You must accept to be led if you are to be a leader. It doesn’t mean I have no mind of my own. I am the Majority Leader within a structure. Our President, Uhuru Kenyatta and the deputy, William Ruto are our political leaders.
It doesn’t mean everything they do is 100 per cent perfect, but when I have issues, like when we wanted a referendum, I raise them. Leadership is not recklessness. I am a student of Robert Green and it has lessons on how to relate with your juniors and superiors. One of the most important ones is to never outshine the master.
Q: As the Majority Leader in the Senate, you receive a telephone call from the President often. What don’t Kenyans know about the man who came to power in March?
A: I can assure you the President means well for this country. The President and his deputy abhor tribalism, and I can tell you when we worked in the committee that brought together TNA and URP, he found where we had written a power-sharing agreement between TNA and URP and he told us off. He said we were not sharing power but it was a deal for national cohesion and inclusivity. But I am not so sure about everybody else around him.
Q: What book would you buy ICC Chief Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda?
A: I would buy Bensouda the Bible and before she reads anything else, I would ask her to go to John 8:32: “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” She is a captive of her own concoction and that of her predecessor Moreno-Ocampo.
Q: Rongo MP Dalmas Otieno last week told us that the squabbles between the Senate and the National Assembly will only end when you guys accept that yours is the weaker institution.
A: The Senate is the stronger institution as it is the only legislative organ charged with the protection of the most sensitive and transformative issue in the country today. However, there are some legal bottlenecks which fetter its performance.
These bottlenecks were inserted by some people sitting in the Senate today who feared a strong Senate. Even though we shelved the referendum after it was hijacked by the Opposition, we will in future need to have a plebiscite.
Q: Which book would you recommend for National Assembly Speaker Justin Muturi?
A: The Art of the Leader by William Cohen. It will teach him the responsibilities of a leader.
Q: Is Alfred Keter to Jubilee what Julius Malema is to the ANC?
A: I have read that Malema is an extremely rich 30-year-old man who can’t explain the source of his wealth.
I also hear that his agenda to the youth is juicy. However, from what I know about the ANC and CCM in Tanzania, these are not parties you can shake with such things. These are parties founded with sweat and blood of the masses.
As for Keter, who is my friend, I am happy to hear the Parliamentary Investments Committee has called him to give information on what he has. I hope he doesn’t transfer his issues into a political duel as we are ready for him. We can’t merely watch as he detracts us from the agenda of serving Kenyans as our opponents cheer him on.
Q: Critics of this government have accused Jubilee of being bullish in victory and using its numbers in both Houses of Parliament often to the detriment of the country.
A: We are not running a charity. We are running a political party and politics is very rough business the world over. We were given the mandate to run government. Governments are run by political parties and shall always ensure our policies are pushed through. We won’t apologise for that.
However, I want to assure Kenyans that we will always use our numbers not only to push the Jubilee manifesto, but to ensure at all times the interest of the nation comes first.
- Daily Nation
Like his favourite character Okonkwo, who washed his hands and dined with kings, Prof Kindiki has outgrown his age at every turn.
He was Associate Dean, University of Nairobi School of Law at only 32, and last year he beat more experienced and more moneyed politicians such as Kiraitu Murungi, the latter-day King of Ameru, to the seat of Senate Majority Leader.
But there are those who say the eloquent Tharaka-Nithi senator has shed off hisacademic gown and abandoned the reformist path.
Hogwash, he says. A student of Robert Greene, he asserts that leadership is not recklessness and that loyalty is a virtue in politics. The lawyer, who was once given a Sh400,000-a-month job by the Narcadministration but resigned a few months later saying he was idle, also told us why he wakes up at 2am to read.
Q: Your PhD thesis advocates for the intervention of the international community in cases of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity, yet today you are an acidic anti-ICC crusader. How do you reconcile the two?
A: The thesis was based on the Rwandan genocide in which a million people died in a 100 days even as the world watched and did nothing. I argued for the international society to support reconstructive residual mechanism.
I also made a case for a graduated intervention to protect civilians in Darfur. The Right To Protect remains even more profound today, but not necessarily in a judicial manner. It can be militarily or politically. But we don’t need a Big Brother; we need a big friend because as, in the case of Cain and Abel, a brother is not always well-meaning.
Q: So what is the problem with the ICC intervention in the Uhuru-Ruto cases?
A: You cannot explain how Kenya which, sadly, had a bad experience for three weeks, has become the obsession of the world for six years now. We have been saying all this time the problem did not constitute crimes against humanity.
Now they are scavenging for evidence while Syria, which has been embroiled in systematic and orchestrated civil war for the last 23 months, has not been touched. The court has also used the most absurd methodology, opening cases then investigating instead of the other way round. They have also emphasised oral evidence, which can be easily abused by taking connivance as corroboration. But the cases will collapse spectacularly, which could bring the court down because it will trigger a huge legitimacy crisis.
Q: You rose through the academic ranks at a break-neck speed, completing your doctorate in two-and-a-half years. What is the secret?
A: From a very young age, I learnt from my parents and the society around me that the road of life is a long one. I also learnt the value of believing in oneself. The human person is created by God with incredible capacity. I learnt I could rise from anything to anything.
Q: So why did you abandon the academy for politics?
A: It was not about the pay. I am better off earning Sh150,000 without any public demands than earn Sh800,000, all which I can easily give out in fund-raisings. Politics is an economically hazardous profession, but I am still a much happier man now.
I left because I had given 12 years of my prime to a cause I believed in. I also realised I was serving a very small cadre of people, who could access higher education and do an elite course called law. I am very happy I made a decision to serve the 99 per cent out there who actually needed my help.
Q: The renowned essayist Francis Bacon wrote that reading maketh a man. What kind of literature made you what you are today?
A: I have been influenced a lot by the Bible. My father was a reverend of theMethodist Church for 50 years and in my younger days, I was able to read the Biblefrom cover to cover. Those who hear me speak often will tell you that my analogies and nuggets of wisdom are drawn from the Holy Book.
Q: Do you still find time to read?
A: Yes, I read. I read while travelling, in the traffic jams and between midnight and 2am. This is when my mind absorbs the most.
You know reading is the food of the mind. Just like you nourish the body by bathing and grooming, you must also read if you are to keep your mind alert and healthy. I am a constructionist reader as opposed to a displacement reader.
Most Kenyans who read use the displacement method and just like in the Archimedes Principle, what is earlier read is displaced by the new knowledge. When I was teaching, I often teased my Fourth Year law students that we were in the process of changing the curriculum to include an oral test where to graduate they had to successfully answer random questions from First Year, and they were always terrified.
Q: What body of knowledge most fascinates you?
A: I love biographies and motivational books. I am also a great fan of African literature. One that has made a life-long impact on me is Things Fall Apart.
The tragedy of how one man single-handedly tried to defend African culture. Okonkwo had achieved so much, but had no strategy of engaging success. And this is where Robert Greene’s 48 Laws of Power comes in. Greene is another of my favourites.
If you are strategic, you can even accept to lose a battle, but win the war. I am also a great admirer of Elechi Amadi of The Concubine and The Great Ponds fame. In the motivational genre, John Mason’s An Enemy Called Average is my all-time favourite. I have lately moved into books of management. And of course I buy every new title in my field of international law.
Q: Any Kenyan book?
A: Oh yes, I have read Ngugi wa Thiong’o, especially A Grain of Wheat, The River Between and Petals of Blood; Henry Ole Kulet and Meja Mwangi as well as recent biographies like Raila Odinga’s Flames of Freedom.
Q: What are you reading now?
A: I am reading From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000 by Lee Kuan Yew. It has great lessons on how a tiny country which economic analysts were not even giving a chance, leaped from a backwater former British post to an economic force in Asia and the world in a generation.
Singapore has a striking resemblance to our small county, Tharaka-Nithi, and I know it is possible for us and Kenya as a whole to take off and be a world force in our lifetime.
Q: Meru leaders from outside Imenti like Mithika Linturi and Kareke Mbiuki have vowed that they are re-evaluating their support for Uhuru. Is that the feeling of the voter in Irunduni?
A: As the senior-most politician from the Mt Kenya region, I can tell you that there has been a historical problem centred around skewed development projects and discriminatory public appointments.
Make no mistake about it. It is true we are a bit uncomfortable about what has so far been announced. As a man who is looked up to by the whole of that region, I can tell you the appointments put us in a big mess. The cries from the Igembe and Tigania parts of Meru County and those from Tharaka Nithi County are not far-fetched.
But the solution is not to vilify a community or to call for the sacking of those already appointed. I have been assured by the President there are still 170 otherpositions that are coming up and I urge my people to be patient.
But even of more importance is to address development discrepancies. We have a stake in Jubilee. You can’t build a house then you leave it for strangers. But we shall continue vehemently fighting for equalisation, which will also cushion the President when we go back to ask for votes.
Q: The British government has stuck to its guns saying it would not lift the ban on miraa. What next for Meru leaders seeing as the twig is the backbone of the region’s economy?
A: Recent findings have vindicated us that miraa is a stimulant and not a drug. Even the countries that have banned it have not done so on the basis that it is a drug, but that it litters towns and makes people idle. We have gone to court in London to challenge the notice to ban it.
Q: You are a prominent leader of a government that is now being accused of rolling back the democratic gains made in the last 20 years.
A: All leadership is tested and we will be the stronger for it. The ICC matter is now almost behind us and this will help us concentrate on what we have started: transforming the lives of Kenyans by building institutions and delivering services.
Q: You rose to fame as a foremost international law scholar. Who do you see now when you look in the mirror?
A: I see my old self. You must accept to be led if you are to be a leader. It doesn’t mean I have no mind of my own. I am the Majority Leader within a structure. Our President, Uhuru Kenyatta and the deputy, William Ruto are our political leaders.
It doesn’t mean everything they do is 100 per cent perfect, but when I have issues, like when we wanted a referendum, I raise them. Leadership is not recklessness. I am a student of Robert Green and it has lessons on how to relate with your juniors and superiors. One of the most important ones is to never outshine the master.
Q: As the Majority Leader in the Senate, you receive a telephone call from the President often. What don’t Kenyans know about the man who came to power in March?
A: I can assure you the President means well for this country. The President and his deputy abhor tribalism, and I can tell you when we worked in the committee that brought together TNA and URP, he found where we had written a power-sharing agreement between TNA and URP and he told us off. He said we were not sharing power but it was a deal for national cohesion and inclusivity. But I am not so sure about everybody else around him.
Q: What book would you buy ICC Chief Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda?
A: I would buy Bensouda the Bible and before she reads anything else, I would ask her to go to John 8:32: “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” She is a captive of her own concoction and that of her predecessor Moreno-Ocampo.
Q: Rongo MP Dalmas Otieno last week told us that the squabbles between the Senate and the National Assembly will only end when you guys accept that yours is the weaker institution.
A: The Senate is the stronger institution as it is the only legislative organ charged with the protection of the most sensitive and transformative issue in the country today. However, there are some legal bottlenecks which fetter its performance.
These bottlenecks were inserted by some people sitting in the Senate today who feared a strong Senate. Even though we shelved the referendum after it was hijacked by the Opposition, we will in future need to have a plebiscite.
Q: Which book would you recommend for National Assembly Speaker Justin Muturi?
A: The Art of the Leader by William Cohen. It will teach him the responsibilities of a leader.
Q: Is Alfred Keter to Jubilee what Julius Malema is to the ANC?
A: I have read that Malema is an extremely rich 30-year-old man who can’t explain the source of his wealth.
As for Keter, who is my friend, I am happy to hear the Parliamentary Investments Committee has called him to give information on what he has. I hope he doesn’t transfer his issues into a political duel as we are ready for him. We can’t merely watch as he detracts us from the agenda of serving Kenyans as our opponents cheer him on.
Q: Critics of this government have accused Jubilee of being bullish in victory and using its numbers in both Houses of Parliament often to the detriment of the country.
A: We are not running a charity. We are running a political party and politics is very rough business the world over. We were given the mandate to run government. Governments are run by political parties and shall always ensure our policies are pushed through. We won’t apologise for that.
However, I want to assure Kenyans that we will always use our numbers not only to push the Jubilee manifesto, but to ensure at all times the interest of the nation comes first.
- Daily Nation
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